I remember the day her media friends — all journalists, whom supposedly should be skeptical and used to looking up court docs — smugly retweeted that defense essay in support.
I feel nuts that it’s been completely forgotten as it’s the first thing I think of whenever her name comes up!
There was a Twitter Lawyer Guy who rushed to her defense and tried to cover the whole thing up as a Legal Expert but his reading of the documents was in pretty bad faith. What the Tolentinos did was immoral. The courts determining that the conditions did not meet the SPECIFIC legal definition for human trafficking does not excuse the agreed upon facts of the case, where WERE affirmed by the court, and any normal person would consider to be Very Bad.
What really blew my mind was on Twitter, when she published her defense of her parents, certain people who you'd think should know better replied to her literally saying "solidarity". Solidarity........
Ofc they have solidarity! They know a lot more of what it's like to be a petite bourgeois media lib on Twitter than they do a desperate migrant worker, someone whose experience is completely foreign to them
Have you read Lauren Oyler’s review of Trick Mirror in the London Review of Books? It’s my favorite modern piece of literary criticism, because I just find it so fun to read. I return to it a lot. I will never forget about the huge parade of media personalities sharing their condolences (??) in Jia’s Twitter comments after she posted her insane self-exculpatory piece.
Loved this, and just wanted to recommend that review in case you might enjoy it :)
This is obviously horrifying but do we have evidence that she knew about this/was involved at all? I just don’t know if we can hold children responsible for their parents misdeeds… human trafficking adjacent behavior is pretty far removed from doing Airbnb sponcon.
she also claimed that she intended to write about it in more depth in the future, but hasn't gotten to that yet. if it would be for the New Yorker the claims would have to pass their institutional fact checking standards. who knows whether she tried and it didn't work out, or what, but even the original blog she wrote has been taken down. peers on social media were sympathetic to the "the George W. Bush administration attacked my parents" story, but as of now in hindsight she would have been better off not defending her parents, since otherwise she wouldn't be so closely associated with their actions.
isn't it possible that everyone sucks in this story?
Jia Tolentino and her parents: yep and yep.
But the "trafficked" Filipinos: they did not get what they thought they were paying for, absolutely for sure. But what did they think they were paying for? If there were great American teaching jobs available to them, did they not think to themselves -- huh, I'll just apply through whatever website must exist since this is 100% legit
Or were they signing up for either (1) a promise from the senior Tolentinos that they'd be whisked to the front of whatever queue for those jobs might exist and / or (2) a promise from the senior Tolentinos that they'd be whisked past any pesky security about qualifications, eligibility, immigration law, etc. etc.
Because what those "trafficked" Filipinos seem to have been paying for is a bespoke service run by other Filipinos that would fly them from the Philippines right into a professional job paid for by the U.S. taxpayer, with no pesky American paperwork hassles along the way.
It's a little bit more like the Bernie Madoff case than "oh no trafficked human slaves" and I wonder if some of their testimony was obtained in exchange for immunity from prosecution in their own right.
Madoff ripped off a lot of people, BUT ALSO a lot of people invested with Madoff because they thought he had inside connections and knowledge that explained his impossible rates of return. They got fucked, but they thought they were along for a special ride involving the fucking of others. the Tolentino scheme looks to me like a similar racket.
I'll keep my heart stanched for this one and let it bleed on other occasions.
Cuz 1) this was all covered exhaustively when she started writing for the NYer. And 2) she’s not responsible for the actions of her parents. Get over it.
Heh. I don't really care what Jia Tolentino says or writes or does, like, I've checked out. She's just another nobody trying to get some likes and followers.
What about the numerous victims who testified against the Tolentinos? There were over 200 victims.
As for Gaiman, I don't have much investment as I have always hated his work, but the allegations about him are extreme and specific. I'm not saying it's impossible that a bunch of people could bandwagon onto claiming someone "abused" them in bad faith, but when we look at the few examples of times we can say for certain that have happened (Junot Diaz, for whom we now have convenient direct evidence that basically all of the allegations were false) the allegations tend to be "vague" in the first place or disconnected (as in the Diaz case). The allegations against Gaiman are extremely specific, include notable running similarities between all of them (most emphasizing Gaiman as having very sadistic tendencies, loving to inflict pain, and forced anal), and are VERY extreme. In some cases there were even witnesses. He even allegedly anally raped a woman IN FRONT OF HER SON.
To me the wild part is not just the story but that the entire media industry acted as though SHE was in the victim. In a story about human slaves!
AND PEOPLE AGREED WITH HER!!!!
I remember the day her media friends — all journalists, whom supposedly should be skeptical and used to looking up court docs — smugly retweeted that defense essay in support.
I feel nuts that it’s been completely forgotten as it’s the first thing I think of whenever her name comes up!
There was a Twitter Lawyer Guy who rushed to her defense and tried to cover the whole thing up as a Legal Expert but his reading of the documents was in pretty bad faith. What the Tolentinos did was immoral. The courts determining that the conditions did not meet the SPECIFIC legal definition for human trafficking does not excuse the agreed upon facts of the case, where WERE affirmed by the court, and any normal person would consider to be Very Bad.
What really blew my mind was on Twitter, when she published her defense of her parents, certain people who you'd think should know better replied to her literally saying "solidarity". Solidarity........
Ofc they have solidarity! They know a lot more of what it's like to be a petite bourgeois media lib on Twitter than they do a desperate migrant worker, someone whose experience is completely foreign to them
🫨 what the hell
Have you read Lauren Oyler’s review of Trick Mirror in the London Review of Books? It’s my favorite modern piece of literary criticism, because I just find it so fun to read. I return to it a lot. I will never forget about the huge parade of media personalities sharing their condolences (??) in Jia’s Twitter comments after she posted her insane self-exculpatory piece.
Loved this, and just wanted to recommend that review in case you might enjoy it :)
This is obviously horrifying but do we have evidence that she knew about this/was involved at all? I just don’t know if we can hold children responsible for their parents misdeeds… human trafficking adjacent behavior is pretty far removed from doing Airbnb sponcon.
She wrote a piece preemptively defending it and lying about the nature of what happened. Based on the blog she wrote she had always known about it.
she also claimed that she intended to write about it in more depth in the future, but hasn't gotten to that yet. if it would be for the New Yorker the claims would have to pass their institutional fact checking standards. who knows whether she tried and it didn't work out, or what, but even the original blog she wrote has been taken down. peers on social media were sympathetic to the "the George W. Bush administration attacked my parents" story, but as of now in hindsight she would have been better off not defending her parents, since otherwise she wouldn't be so closely associated with their actions.
Sounds like the Tolentinos take what they want. Doesn’t mean we have to give them any respect.
isn't it possible that everyone sucks in this story?
Jia Tolentino and her parents: yep and yep.
But the "trafficked" Filipinos: they did not get what they thought they were paying for, absolutely for sure. But what did they think they were paying for? If there were great American teaching jobs available to them, did they not think to themselves -- huh, I'll just apply through whatever website must exist since this is 100% legit
Or were they signing up for either (1) a promise from the senior Tolentinos that they'd be whisked to the front of whatever queue for those jobs might exist and / or (2) a promise from the senior Tolentinos that they'd be whisked past any pesky security about qualifications, eligibility, immigration law, etc. etc.
Because what those "trafficked" Filipinos seem to have been paying for is a bespoke service run by other Filipinos that would fly them from the Philippines right into a professional job paid for by the U.S. taxpayer, with no pesky American paperwork hassles along the way.
It's a little bit more like the Bernie Madoff case than "oh no trafficked human slaves" and I wonder if some of their testimony was obtained in exchange for immunity from prosecution in their own right.
Madoff ripped off a lot of people, BUT ALSO a lot of people invested with Madoff because they thought he had inside connections and knowledge that explained his impossible rates of return. They got fucked, but they thought they were along for a special ride involving the fucking of others. the Tolentino scheme looks to me like a similar racket.
I'll keep my heart stanched for this one and let it bleed on other occasions.
Cuz 1) this was all covered exhaustively when she started writing for the NYer. And 2) she’s not responsible for the actions of her parents. Get over it.
Sure she isn't, but she IS responsible for the piece she wrote lying on their behalf, which is what I address in this post
Again- this was all covered, but dozens of envious Brooklyn-based writers in 2017. I’m not her biggest fan, but come the fuck on…
red scare “reported” on this 25 years ago
Plus her prose is boring!
Didn’t this happen when she was a young teenager?
Heh. I don't really care what Jia Tolentino says or writes or does, like, I've checked out. She's just another nobody trying to get some likes and followers.
You know, I was skeptical about the Gaiman allegations and I’m going to extend Ms. Tolentino the same courtesy. I don’t know what really happened.
What about the numerous victims who testified against the Tolentinos? There were over 200 victims.
As for Gaiman, I don't have much investment as I have always hated his work, but the allegations about him are extreme and specific. I'm not saying it's impossible that a bunch of people could bandwagon onto claiming someone "abused" them in bad faith, but when we look at the few examples of times we can say for certain that have happened (Junot Diaz, for whom we now have convenient direct evidence that basically all of the allegations were false) the allegations tend to be "vague" in the first place or disconnected (as in the Diaz case). The allegations against Gaiman are extremely specific, include notable running similarities between all of them (most emphasizing Gaiman as having very sadistic tendencies, loving to inflict pain, and forced anal), and are VERY extreme. In some cases there were even witnesses. He even allegedly anally raped a woman IN FRONT OF HER SON.
Fair enough. You convinced me on both cases.
i believe this is the most coherent defence you'll find, up to you if you consider it convincing: https://technopathology.substack.com/p/neil-gaiman-is-innocent-introduction